Comments on: Adventures trying to use open-source libraries http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries Software and Innovation Sun, 10 Jul 2011 14:13:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Scott L. Burson http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-26756 Scott L. Burson Mon, 11 May 2009 20:17:37 +0000 http://danweinreb.org/blog/?p=143#comment-26756 There is a CL darcs client, cl-darcs, which looks like it would have been adequate for this purpose (I think it can pull but not push). I haven't tried it, though. There is a CL darcs client, cl-darcs, which looks like it would have been adequate for this purpose (I think it can pull but not push). I haven’t tried it, though.

]]> By: gwern http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-26726 gwern Mon, 11 May 2009 12:46:46 +0000 http://danweinreb.org/blog/?p=143#comment-26726 @David House: well, there used to be asdf-install http://www.cliki.net/ASDF-Install but I don't know how polished or used it is compared to cabal-install. @David House: well, there used to be asdf-install http://www.cliki.net/ASDF-Install but I don’t know how polished or used it is compared to cabal-install.

]]> By: Dan Weinreb http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-25974 Dan Weinreb Sun, 03 May 2009 11:45:25 +0000 http://danweinreb.org/blog/?p=143#comment-25974 @Rob: I'm sure you're right. What will take some time is peripheral activities such as relocating my home dir from one place to another, getting my environment set up regarding networking and apps and files in the right place, and all that. It's probably all straightforward but it will surely require some learning, trying out, and time. Fortunately I have many helpful and friendly co-workers who will be forgiving about helping a stumbling newbie like me. @Rob: I’m sure you’re right. What will take some time is peripheral activities such as relocating my home dir from one place to another, getting my environment set up regarding networking and apps and files in the right place, and all that. It’s probably all straightforward but it will surely require some learning, trying out, and time. Fortunately I have many helpful and friendly co-workers who will be forgiving about helping a stumbling newbie like me.

]]> By: Rob http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-25917 Rob Sun, 03 May 2009 00:42:35 +0000 http://danweinreb.org/blog/?p=143#comment-25917 On Linux install taking an hour: Sure, if you include installing everything else you had before and completely from scratch, but I have found the basic Ubuntu install takes maybe 20 minutes at most. If you have a distro with good package management then upgrading to the newest version is trivially fast, maybe 5-10 minutes, and you still have your entire configuration intact. On Linux install taking an hour: Sure, if you include installing everything else you had before and completely from scratch, but I have found the basic Ubuntu install takes maybe 20 minutes at most. If you have a distro with good package management then upgrading to the newest version is trivially fast, maybe 5-10 minutes, and you still have your entire configuration intact.

]]> By: Kaleberg http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-25198 Kaleberg Sat, 25 Apr 2009 03:24:14 +0000 http://danweinreb.org/blog/?p=143#comment-25198 That's hilarious, but horribly typical. It is no different in the C world. I remember trying to compile the gtk library and wound up having to download a dozen libraries, all needing to be recompiled from source. Amazingly, I got the entire thing to compile and link, but it never worked quite right, and I was damned if I was going to debug it. That’s hilarious, but horribly typical.

It is no different in the C world. I remember trying to compile the gtk library and wound up having to download a dozen libraries, all needing to be recompiled from source. Amazingly, I got the entire thing to compile and link, but it never worked quite right, and I was damned if I was going to debug it.

]]> By: Richard Tibbetts http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-24690 Richard Tibbetts Sun, 19 Apr 2009 03:31:21 +0000 http://danweinreb.org/blog/?p=143#comment-24690 The technical term for this exercise of dependency following and unwanted technical exploration is "yak shaving". See the original http://projects.csail.mit.edu/gsb/old-archive/gsb-archive/gsb2000-02-11.html and the more modern http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yak_shaving Part of the reason the problem persists in free software is because the community is so tolerant of it they don't even notice it. See the comment above that you should just install a new version of linux, because it will "only take an hour". The upside of yak shaving is that you generally learn some things you never would have otherwise, and often they come in handy later. The technical term for this exercise of dependency following and unwanted technical exploration is “yak shaving”. See the original http://projects.csail.mit.edu/gsb/old-archive/gsb-archive/gsb2000-02-11.html and the more modern http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yak_shaving

Part of the reason the problem persists in free software is because the community is so tolerant of it they don’t even notice it. See the comment above that you should just install a new version of linux, because it will “only take an hour”.

The upside of yak shaving is that you generally learn some things you never would have otherwise, and often they come in handy later.

]]> By: Ascription is an Anathema to any Enthusiasm › the briar patch http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-23898 Ascription is an Anathema to any Enthusiasm › the briar patch Sun, 12 Apr 2009 21:25:28 +0000 http://danweinreb.org/blog/?p=143#comment-23898 [...] wrote up his travails getting some Lisp libraries working on.  Boy have I been [...] [...] wrote up his travails getting some Lisp libraries working on.  Boy have I been [...]

]]> By: Ben Hyde http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-23869 Ben Hyde Sun, 12 Apr 2009 16:42:38 +0000 http://danweinreb.org/blog/?p=143#comment-23869 Yeah, there certainly is a worse is better syndrome seen across open source software stacks. Clbuild is treating me reasonably well these days; but I'm currently using sbcl. @Faré you slay me! The further down your install software stack you upgrade the more things upstream must be upgraded, and the greater the chance one of them is going to surprise you. If that wasn't true then you'd start each day by installing the latest version of the OS, it's libraries et. al. Now that might be the best option but it's not how most of work. Yeah, there certainly is a worse is better syndrome seen across open source software stacks.

Clbuild is treating me reasonably well these days; but I’m currently using sbcl.

@Faré you slay me! The further down your install software stack you upgrade the more things upstream must be upgraded, and the greater the chance one of them is going to surprise you. If that wasn’t true then you’d start each day by installing the latest version of the OS, it’s libraries et. al. Now that might be the best option but it’s not how most of work.

]]> By: Slobodan Blazeski http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-23683 Slobodan Blazeski Sat, 11 Apr 2009 07:02:24 +0000 http://danweinreb.org/blog/?p=143#comment-23683 @Dan I agree about problem not being specific to lisp and I have nothing but hat down to authors of common lisp libraries (King, Weitz, Battayani, Antoniotti, Constanza and many other homage to you). But we must understand that we live in a lisp world. Those little things that make a difference from barely usable hackbrary to a quality library take a lot of time and grunt work to write. The payoff is that when they are written users could concentrate on making something useful instead of wasting time to make damn thing work or rise the white flag and start new hackbrary. Also it sends a signal to other lispers that barely usable is Ok. I know that lispers are a smart persons and that for every solution they could think of dozen architectural solution that would be far better. But unless you're planning to spend time to bring your dream architecture to a real library please, please swallow your pride and help the second-best-available to become more polished. We know the joke about *real* programmers who are 50% done after 1 week, 90% done after 1 month, 95% done after 3 months, and leave the project after 6 months on 99% because remaining 1% needs 99% of the work. That's just my humble opinion or I'm getting old :) @Dan
I agree about problem not being specific to lisp and I have nothing but hat down to authors of common lisp libraries (King, Weitz, Battayani, Antoniotti, Constanza and many other homage to you). But we must understand that we live in a lisp world. Those little things that make a difference from barely usable hackbrary to a quality library take a lot of time and grunt work to write. The payoff is that when they are written users could concentrate on making something useful instead of wasting time to make damn thing work or rise the white flag and start new hackbrary.
Also it sends a signal to other lispers that barely usable is Ok. I know that lispers are a smart persons and that for every solution they could think of dozen architectural solution that would be far better. But unless you’re planning to spend time to bring your dream architecture to a real library please, please swallow your pride and help the second-best-available to become more polished.
We know the joke about *real* programmers who are 50% done after 1 week, 90% done after 1 month, 95% done after 3 months, and leave the project after 6 months on 99% because remaining 1% needs 99% of the work. That’s just my humble opinion or I’m getting old :)

]]> By: Dave Moon http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-23621 Dave Moon Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:00:10 +0000 http://danweinreb.org/blog/?p=143#comment-23621 You start with a little unit test framework that took 5 minutes to write, and then you "improve" it, and before you know what you have done you end up with a total cancer like junit. Better to have stopped after 5 minutes. That's my opinion anyway. I guess Common Lisp is fortunate not to have anything as bad as junit yet. You start with a little unit test framework that took 5 minutes to write, and then you “improve” it, and before you know what you have done you end up with a total cancer like junit. Better to have stopped after 5 minutes. That’s my opinion anyway. I guess Common Lisp is fortunate not to have anything as bad as junit yet.

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